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Legends of the Sport
Roland Martin
Interview by Bernie Schultz

Photo by Yasutaka Ogasawara

May/June 2004

Roland Martin is one of the most celebrated anglers of our time. Incredibly, he has nine B.A.S.S. Angler-of-the-Year titles to his credit, has won 19 B.A.S.S. events, qualified for 25 Bassmaster Classics, and is an inductee into the Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame.

My first introduction to Roland Martin came more than twenty years ago, during a B.A.S.S. event in Florida. Unlike many of his fans or critics, I had no preconceived notions about his character. I was merely curious about the guy I'd seen on television. Since that time, I've come to know Roland pretty well, both on and off the tour. In fact, we've spent considerable time together, sharing a cabin during designated practice periods for two Bassmaster Classics - once at Lay Lake, the other at High Rock.

On many other occasions we pursued saltwater species together, including tarpon, snook, redfish, and permit. Through these experiences I came to realize that Roland Martin is a genuine person, one who has dedicated his life completely to the sport of angling, and the man is tireless. Once, in Boca Grande, Florida we chased snook and tarpon, literally for 18 hours a day. He has more enthusiasm and endurance than anyone I've ever spent time with - regardless of the fish or the techniques used to catch them, Roland Martin is up for the challenge. His wife, Judy, sums it up best; "Roland is an 18-year old kid trapped in a 64-year-old man's body."

As with any celebrity, Roland Martin has experienced his share of controversy. Listen in as one of the sport's true pioneers shares his personal thoughts and insights on family, fishing, and the people most influential in his life. Throughout this interview, Roland speaks candidly on many personal issues, such as his corporate battles, his brutal divorce, the break-up with TNN, and his uncertain future.

Note: This interview took place following the second-day cut of the B.A.S.S. Pro Tour event at Smith Lake, Jasper, AL (February 2-8, 2004). Fishing was brutal as temperatures ranged between freezing and the upper 40's, and hard rains and light snow fell throughout the week.

Bernie: How many years have you been tournament fishing?

Roland: Well, my first tournament was January of 1970, but my first exposure to tournaments was in 1969, when I actually observed a tournament at Eufaula, Alabama, where I saw the record string caught. When I saw the record string come in, I didn't think I was capable of competing. I thought that they were for guys like Rip Nunnery and Gerald Blanchard; guys I watched bring in 197 pounds of bass. I thought, "I need to leave. I don't need to be here, 'cause that's more than I can catch."

Bernie: So we're talking thirty some-odd years?

Roland: Yeah; for 32 or 33 years I've fished the (B.A.S.S.) trail.

Bernie: Roland, I've fished with you, and against you for nearly twenty of those years, and you still have the same go power that you had when I first met you. At 64 you have more stamina and endurance than a lot of 20 year-old guys. What motivates you; what carries you at this age?

Roland: Right now it's good health; that's the main thing I have going for me. I'm a little overweight, but like this week, things got tough, my hands got cold, and I thought maybe it was because I'm old and have lost circulation. I figured the younger guys weren't having problems, but then I found that everyone was having problems with their hands. Just to toughen myself up, acclimate myself, I didn't wear gloves today (note: temps ranged from freezing to upper 40's, and heavy rains poured throughout both competition days preceding the interview). If your body is in good shape and you're healthy, your hands will adapt.

I think it's a sign of good health when you have good circulation. So as far as my health goes, my blood pressure, the vital things that happen while I'm fishing, I think I'm as healthy as most. And as long as that holds up, that's the most important thing. The second most important thing is mental ability…to say, why do I want to do this? Why am I out here competing, and do I have to do this? And the answer is, no, 'cause I retired once.

But I missed the camaraderie of all the guys, like you, just fishing with my friends. The year or so that I retired I was still doing special events at Disney World, a little thing at Cory Island, the Eagles of Angling at Ray Scott's place, and I was still doing well. I was beating the same guys…guys like Brauer, Nixon, and Clunn - they're the stable, the top pros in the field. If you can compete with those guys, you're there. And so, I felt, I'm still there. That was ten years ago, so I came back and started fishing the B.A.S.S. Tour again.

I haven't done exceptionally well, but I have won a couple of tournaments and made a few more (Bassmaster) Classics. But it's funny, if I'm close to the (winning) pattern, and close to a successful tournament, I can feel what I have to do to win. I know I have to shift into second gear. It's not like this tournament, where I'm not catching much of anything, so I don't really care. But if I'm catching fish on the first or second (competition) day, and I've got a shot at winning the whole thing, well, I go the extra step. I feel we all have the ability to do that. When I get close, see myself in contention; I can go into high gear. It's a different gear than I was in this week, but I have that ability to really get focused, and be intent on the game of fishing. I haven't lost that ability…it just takes getting close. It also takes something fortuitous, some luck! Once luck presents itself, I feel like I can still capitalize. You have to have some luck, but if you're good, and your set up for it, with the right tools, the second that luck presents itself you'll capitalize on it. If you're really set and expecting it, it's going to happen…and it does happen.

Bernie: So, as long as your health holds up, you're going to take advantage of it.

Roland: Yeah, as long as my health holds up - I love the competition - as long as I can still muster up that second effort, you know, when I need to. You know what I mean, when it's time to charge, to go after it. When it's right there, and I've got 'em by the balls if I can just put it together. As long as I have those things working for me, the drive, I'm gonna stay with it.

Bernie: Let's switch gears. A few years ago you experienced dramatic changes in your life - radical sponsor changes, long-standing relationships ended with companies that you'd represented for years. We'll get to that in a second, but first, your domestic lifestyle changed radically. You were in a long-term marriage with your ex-wife, Mary Ann, two kids, a big business in Clewiston, Roland Martin's Marina. You were very successful, tons of sponsor commitments, and then things changed very quickly. Now you're with a new lady, your new wife Judy, and you live more of a nomadic lifestyle. Has that changed your approach to the game?

Roland: Well, there were some issues with my first wife, mainly to do with treating me…(pauses)…issues like respect around my peers. That was a super big issue. Just letting me do, or be, the man I needed to be, to make some of the decisions I needed to make. I didn't need a wife like Mary Ann hammering me over a lot of these things, so I wanted to be free. There really wasn't a fidelity issue; that was something that came later on. That was after things had fallen apart from incompatibility…where we just…would just argue. I guess in any relationship arguing is one thing, but…(pauses). I can't put my finger on the right word; it's a combination of things that caused the break up; I can't really get into every little detail.

Bernie: And there's no need to.

Roland: I just was not happy, and so, I chose to make sacrifices…I chose to seek happiness. I've never been that concerned about finances, I've always had enough, but as for the millions of dollars that I, more or less, gave away in the marina thing…that was along the lines of protecting my children. I'd kinda set that up for (son) Scott and my daughter Laura Ann, to reap the benefits and be involved for the rest of their lives if they choose, to take the Marina over, which they are. So it's kinda going the way I planned it, and I'm happy for that.

Bernie: You never shirked your responsibilities as a parent. That was obvious. You care very much for your family, but how did the divorce and your marriage to Judy affect your fishing?

Roland: I don't know that it affected it a whole lot, except that what I have now is a far better fishing partner. Mary Ann had kind of quit the tournament circuit and quit traveling with me. Bernie, as you know…(pauses), you have a friend and roommate, Joe Thomas, and that's good. We all need somebody; you need people. Whether it's a man or a woman, friend or relative, whoever, you need someone to be there to help out. Judy is not only a great executive secretary that works with me on that level, but she's also a great companion, a great fishing partner. She fishes with me a lot, and it's revitalized my approach. You can't just struggle around on your own; this is such a tough business. So many guys not only lack the funds to continue to compete on the tour, they don't have enough help, or time, to fish effectively. Judy makes that happen for me; she makes the time happen.

Bernie: I see her at the boat ramp with you in the mornings, and at the ramp in the evenings; she's in the boat with you much of practice. She's obviously very supportive. She seems proactive in every aspect. I've even seen her rigging rods for you.

Roland: A funny thing happened. I came in yesterday and she asked, "Well, Roland, how did you do?" And I said, "Judy, I didn't catch a (single keeper) fish." She looked at me straight in the eye and said, "What are we doing here?" (He smiled). It wasn't "What am I doing here," it was "What are we doing here?" It made me think, you know, there's something special here - "What are we doing here?" It's a team, a team effort, and as long as she's supportive I'm gonna stay with it.

Tough...is it ever! To stay abreast of the most basic techniques now you have to really be on your toes - bed fishing, drop-shotting, Senko strategies, flipping, skipping under docks, and Carolina rigging.

Bernie: There's the key word, support. Okay, a different direction now - in 30 years on the B.A.S.S. Tour the Classic has eluded you. You've accomplished just about everything possible - Angler of the Year (AOY) nine times, won 19 events, and qualified for 25 Classics. There's really not a whole lot left except winning the Classic. How much does that eat at you and is that what drives you?

Roland: It's a big part of the picture, but you know, what used to drive me was AOY. That's what I thought was the most important. I guess since I had so much success with that, I kind of compromised the whole Classic deal by saying, well it's just not as important as AOY. That was kind of my thoughts, anyway. Of course it turned out that I was probably wrong. I guess it was just my way of being able to rationalize. For years I'd lived in that little dream, but then I got to thinking…there's got to be some real advantages to winning the Classic. I did have a couple of successful trips to the Classic - last year I had the opportunity, with just a couple more fish that I actually had on, I could have won - that was really a big deal for me.

Bernie: Motivational?

Roland: Well, I don't know if it was that motivational, especially looking back at the last two tournaments. I've just done miserably (this season). But I have always said this, on a tournament like the Classic…(pauses). I know Clunn has set a different standard, but except for Clunn, for everybody else, it's just a toss. I mean, can you see much rhyme or reason with how the Classic's won?

Bernie: Well, I'm from the old school. To me, AOY is more impressive. The Classic brings tremendous rewards, there's no disputing that. But the respect and honor of your peers, and those in the (fishing) industry that know, I think they're going to agree that the AOY titles you hold are far more impressive than any single Classic victory.

Roland: The neat thing about this game of bass fishing, I don't think anybody out there really knows. Everybody I talk to, Joe Blow on the street, says, "Roland, how many Classics have you won?" They know that I've won a whole lot of stuff, and I've done this, that, and the other. They figure that along the way I must of won a few Classics (both laugh). So, they'll say, "So how many Classics have you won now Roland?" And I say that I haven't won any. "Oh, really?"

So, in the whole scheme of things I'm proud of what I accomplished in my younger years. Of course I grew up as one of the pioneers of our sport, and we kind of set our own standards at the time. So, some of those early AOY wins are not as big a deal as they are now. We were just fledglings in the sport, and going back thirty-some-odd years, it was a little easier to win a tournament, or an AOY title for that matter.

Bernie: I wouldn't sell your accomplishments short - fishing may be more competitive now, but I wouldn't sell your accomplishments short.

Roland: Tough…is it ever! To stay abreast of the most basic techniques now you have to really be on your toes - bed fishing, drop-shotting, Senko strategies, flipping, skipping under docks, and Carolina rigging. These are essential, like 20 things to master to be halfway competitive.

Bernie: So, you're saying versatility is a must now? It's not like you can be dominant in a particular technique and survive.

Roland: You can't just flip, or throw just a spinnerbait. Now take Jimmy Houston, the barometer for the spinnerbait bite. Well, that's Jimmy Houston, but Jimmy's a little more versatile than that - I've seen him throw a Rat-L-Trap, too (both laugh).

Bernie: Your son Scott has embarked on a pro angling career, and doing extremely well. He's garnered major sponsor support, and he's a dominant performer on the FLW tour. I know you feel pride, but does it make you feel as though the clock's ticking faster for you? Or, are you totally satisfied to watch him develop while you're on your own path?

Roland: Of course, I'm extremely proud. The only thing I wish…that was so much fun, those couple of years when I competed on the FLW trail with Scott…rooming together, working together, and in a couple of cases, fishing the same water together…and doing well. Like at the Mobile (FLW) tournament where he won and I came in sixth. And there were three or four other tournaments where we worked well together. I wish we still had some of that going on because it was so much fun working with him.

But, the other side of the coin - Scott's win was diminished a bit, well, because Dad was there. Dad helped him out, and Dad probably put him on the fish. And so, in a way, the fact that I came in sixth and he ended up winning it…was maybe because I was there, fishing with him. Anyway, that's what people may think. But now that I've been away from FLW and he's on his own, he's doing even better with me not around; he's doing it on his own. It's not like I'm helping him out…well, I am sort of helping from the standpoint of moral support. We still communicate during tournaments and discuss things to try, and sometimes he'll call to ask whom I might know. In the game of (competitive) bass fishing, there's a lot of…(pauses).

Bernie: Networking?

Roland: Yeah, networking. A little sidebar here - what we've done recently with the rules change for B.A.S.S. (referring to the 30-day off-limits, no communication or outside help rule for 2004 B.A.S.S. Pro Tour and Elite-50 events) is to sterilize our sport to a degree. I use that word, sterilized, because we've cut the interaction between local fishermen and the touring pro. We've severed that bond by putting us up on a pedestal where we can't talk to those people, along with the old coffee shop/tackle shop deal where we used to go in and talk fishing. Example: the guy that caught the record spotted bass last week was dieing to talk to one of us. He was beside himself because he'd caught the biggest damn spotted bass in the history of the world and wanted to share his experience with a Roland Martin, or someone. And we had to say sorry, we're not allowed to talk to you. That's wrong; from my perspective…it's wrong!

Bernie: What we're talking about here is the 30-day off limits, no contact, no dialogue with regard to the B.A.S.S. Top 150 and Elite 50 Pro Tours.

Roland: We're sterilizing the sport - it's the interaction that's so important, that's so much fun, and the camaraderie of getting with the locals at the tackle shop or coffee shop. It's all gone, and we've alienated them. They're all mad at us, Hell, we can't even talk to them. This is crazy for the sport - I don't like it, and the fans don't like it. We have to think this out, to find another way of doing it. I don't mind the rule, but it causes problems.

Bernie: Moving on, this is going to be tough. In the late 90's you were interviewed by a writer from Sports Illustrated who asked very pointed questions, one was your take on Irwin Jacobs and his impact on the fishing industry. Your remarks cost you dearly. I'd like to know what it's like now for Roland Martin - life after that encounter with Irwin Jacobs. You've had some radical sponsor changes. There were long-term deals with several major companies, and then all of a sudden those relationships were terminated.

Roland: Right (sighs). Well, I've probably said a little too much in my day, and I was probably a little too candid in my description of things, and a little guilty of making statements in that interview that were probably a little off-color. But, the main problem with that interview is that I was…that my comments were taken out of context, entirely. The way the conversation went with Sports Illustrated was the writer asked me what I thought of FLW, and what I thought of Irwin Jacobs. So, we started off on that note and I gave Jacobs a lot of accolades, stating competition is the greatest thing we have, and therefore I supported FLW and the B.A.S.S. trail because they're working together. Then he asked me about the (FLW) Millennium tournament. I had already talked with Irwin one-on-one about it down at Clewiston, and told him to his face, "Irwin, this Millennium thing isn't set up for the pros, it's set up for the average fishermen - you have Sycamore Landing guys qualifying, all the guys from the Red Man (now BFL) tournaments that catch big bass, and you have limited places for a pro to qualify. Irwin kind of agreed, but felt the grassroots was important.

So with that in mind, the writer asked me what I thought about the Millennium tournament and I went a little bit too far. I said, "You know, Irwin Jacobs - talking about the Millennium - doesn't care about the pro fishermen. Irwin Jacobs isn't really concerned about the pro fishermen. He's concerned about the Joe Lunchbucket fishermen." The quotes were taken out of context, referencing nothing about the Millennium tournament.

The whole thing was a gross misrepresentation of…(pauses). Anyway, it was a big article and it kind of hammered Irwin Jacobs. The article, if you read the whole thing, had quotes from Ray Scott and others, and it kind of hammered Irwin in general. By the time Jacobs got to read my quotes he was ready to kick some butt (smiles and laughs), and that's what he did. He called up (Ranger Boats) and said, "Fire Roland." When I called him the next week he said, "Roland, if you had been my brother…if you had been my brother, in one nanosecond I would have still fired you!" He was so mad. The article was upsetting to him; it was completely off the track that he wanted. He didn't want to be portrayed as someone who didn't support the pro fishermen. So he fired me, boom…just like that.
But I'll tell you this, looking back on the whole thing, there were a lot of misunderstandings, and of course, I lost my deal with Ranger in the process. But my son Scott is a favored by Ranger, and Irwin Jacobs loves Scott. I don't think it's because he's trying to appease me, or make things right, but maybe in some strange way Irwin's thinking, gosh, I was a little bit tough on his dad. Maybe there is something there.

Bernie: Ranger was one. Were there any other major sponsors lost as a result of that encounter?

Roland: There were some other sponsor changes - the Minn Kota deal fell short, part of that because Ranger was going OEM with Minn Kota. Now that I'm with Triton Boats, so strong with MotorGuide, and Minn Kota's asking me what I can do about Triton. I'm going to Earl Bentz and we're trying to work things out, but I think that's an issue that's probably not going to get resolved. I think Earl is going to continue working with MotorGuide. He loves MotorGuide, no matter what. So I lost some ground there.

And of course, add the fact that Wal-Mart is so closely aligned with FLW, and I'm not on the FLW tour any longer. Maybe as a result of the whole mess Wal-Mart decided Roland is not somebody they were going to support. I don't know. Maybe there was some of that, also.

Bernie: A conflict of interest?

Roland: Conflict of interest with the different companies (associated with Wal-Mart and the FLW tour), and I think I had a small contract with Bass Pro Shops at the time. So there was just a mess. You can't operate on both trails, both B.A.S.S. and FLW, not if you have different (conflicting) sponsors. There's going to be problems. There's no one out there that hasn't had, or will have problems with conflicts.

Bernie: And it looks like that's always going to be the case.

Roland: I think with me it was a little worse because I'm high profile, and the fact that the advertising was such a big consideration.

Bernie: Okay, life after Irwin Jacobs. You've restructured your personal lifestyle, your professional lifestyle, and you've got new sponsors. You're up and running again. How is it different? Tell me about that.

Roland: Well, another thing happened that we should talk about, and that's my falling from grace with The Nashville Network (TNN). That was a big career change.

You know, the tournament trail is really nothing more than a springboard for my television production, for credibility. The television show is so important. What happened four or five years ago was David Hall, CEO of TNN, told me there was going to be an acquisition of TNN; that CBS was going to buy it. And they owned it for a couple of years; then Viacom bought it about three years ago. When they bought it, they gave the MTV group (division of Viacom) control of TNN.

Bernie: You're kidding?

Roland: The same group that put Janet Jackson on the Super Bowl. At the first corporate meeting I attended - me, Mark Sosin, and a few others down at Key West - this young gal, Diane Roballo, a woman's rights activist, probably gay activist and everything else, she's really tough…(grins), she said, "We're trying to appeal to a younger audience, and we think your show is for too old an audience. And that's a big consideration." In the meantime I followed David Halls' suggestion to find another home, and so we did. He helped me, and by the time TNN let me go, three years ago, I was set up with the Outdoor Life Network (OLN), thanks to David. At the time they had just 10 or 12 million households - then it went to 30 million that first year, then 50 million. Right now its around 60 million households. I just got the ratings today - for January I pulled over a half-million households per week. Now, the first year I was on OLN I was only getting about 200,000 per week, now I'm over 500,000, a big increase.

Bernie: Compare that to TNN.

Roland: Twelve years ago in the heyday of TNN we had fewer stations to work with and the pie was being sliced in bigger pieces; TNN was a big player. We had up to about a million households per week. Back in 1990 we were delivering about one million per week. Now Bill Dance, his highest was 1,100,000 per week on average. My average was 992,000 that year, beating me by about 100,000, and Lindner was right in there around a million.

Since 1990 the slices have become smaller; there are more options, more choices for the viewer. And once TNN went to "National" instead of "Nashville" network, and now Spike TV, it's all gone down hill. Even ESPN broadcasts have suffered. You talk about ratings for the Bassmaster show, believe it not, I'm not sure they produce any more audience than I'm producing. I'm not bragging.

Bernie: I heard the Classic show in 2003 realized fewer than 300,000 households.

Roland: I can believe it. I was kicking it around with one of the ESPN guys, and I bet the total week's delivery isn't much more than a half-million, and that's what I'm doing now, a half-million households.

So, financially, things are working out. I couldn't afford to buy all the air time and sell it like Shaw Grigsby's done, and Bill Dance has done. What I do is a half-buy and half-barter deal, where I own two minutes of airtime, which I sell, plus all the product endorsement and product showcasing that I do. The other part, and I'm the only one in the industry doing this, I sell them (sponsors) the week's production. Nobody is doing that; everybody else retains rights (to their production). Over the last 25 years I had films piling up, and guess what? I can't use them anymore, because I was in a Ranger, or I was using a Johnson motor…or sometimes I had the wrong reel, or the wrong hat. There are really no films that I can go back to before two years ago, where something isn't screwed up. I can't really use that footage, but I do have rights to use excerpts.

So, the tournament fishing I'm doing does nothing more than adds credibility to my TV image. To cap the whole thing off, you asked why I'm doing this - I'm really doing it for a livelihood, and tournaments add credibility.

Bernie: Let's talk about your old friend Ray Scott.

Roland: Oh boy, what a dynamo. People don't realize how much Ray Scott's involved with, even today at 73 years of age; the man's a human dynamo. He has more ideas…I remember traveling with Ray in '71 and '72 on the (B.A.S.S.) seminar tour. Ray would take a bath everyday, and sit there in the tub with a yellow legal pad and almost fill that notepad up with incredible, crazy ideas. Sometimes he'd just draw pictures, but that's where he created ideas like the B.A.S.S. Research Foundation, and the Wallop-Breaux funding for Army Corp of Engineers launch-ramp facilities. He'd come up with all sorts of things, like some of his current projects, like the Whitetail Institute. He sold two million dollars worth of food last year through the Whitetail Institute. Ray still has Bob Cobb (the former editor of Bassmaster Magazine, and former producer of the Bassmaster TV show) doing his presswork for him, and he does contract work for MotorGuide and Triton. Ray does personal appearances all the time, and motivational speeches.

He told me, though, that he'd love to get back involved with B.A.S.S. in some way. He considers B.A.S.S. to be his greatest creation - he's so proud of that. He loves B.A.S.S.

Bernie: Do you think he'll ever get involved again?

Roland: I don't know that he will be, but he's inclined to want to be.

Bernie: It's his legacy.

Roland: And he really feels he's part of it; it's the biggest thing he's ever done, and he wants to be on good terms with them. I think it kind of hurts him that he's not on closer terms with B.A.S.S.

Bernie: Summarize Ray Scott.

Roland: He's one of the most unforgettable people I've ever met. He's the guy I named my son after, Scott. One thing I noticed, because I traveled with him so many times, no matter whom he's with, Ray Scott feels a moral obligation to entertain everybody. I don't care who it is - it could be a truck full of Haitians that don't even speak English and he'd think of a way to entertain them. When there's a group around his showmanship comes out. It's his ability to entertain, and he wants to do it. You know Bernie, you've been around him…he'll play jokes on you and he'll kid around.

I remember one time in a restaurant, and this is so characteristic of Ray, back before cell phones in the early 70's. He'd go to a dime store and buy a kid's toy phone for about two bucks. To see it, even from 100 feet away, you'd see it was a toy phone. When you turned the dial it would ring (makes the sound), but Ray would carry it in and set it on the table, and everybody in the restaurant would say what's he doing with a little toy phone. By about halfway through the meal he'd have gotten the name of the Maitre De, or the owner, or some other important person that was there - all of a sudden, he'd take his phone at a quiet moment, turn the dial to make it ring (makes the sound), and he'd say, "Hello, oh, John Smith…just a second". Then he'd stand up. Everybody was captivated by that time, and they'd listen to see what was going to happen. Scott would hold the phone up in the middle of the restaurant and call out, "Is mister John Smith here?" Well, John Smith could see it was a toy, and know he's being set up. You didn't have to be smart to figure this out.

Bernie: It was blatant.

Roland: It was blatant, but Ray was so insistent. "Mr. John Smith, you have a phone call. Please come over." Well, you can't get away from Ray, especially when he's in that mode. He's got you. So everybody, all 200 people in the restaurant are saying, "What's this guy doing?" (laughs) So, here comes John Smith dragging over, looking at the stupid little phone, and Ray would hand it to him, and the guy would say, "Hello". Of course, there wasn't anybody there, and everyone would crack up. It was so innocent, and typical of Ray, and typical of the way he wants to entertain; it was an honor to be chosen. I've never seen anybody mad. He doesn't make people mad; he just does ludicrous things that are funny.

Bernie: So in your mind, he's the consummate entertainer?

Roland: He is, and he'll continue to be so whenever you're around him, or when he's around a group. He does great film work. I just did a couple of films with him down on his lake, and our main emphasis was on the tape series he did, Great Small Waters. It's a tape series he's selling and it will be featured in the product showcase on my show. I admit; his lake is the best in the country. In the Eagles Of Angling tournament, out of 20 pros that fished his lake, 14 of them caught the largest bass of their life.

Bernie: Extremely fertile and well stocked.

Roland: Yeah. We were drop-shotting the other day and caught a couple of eight-pounders! (laughs)

Bernie: Incredible place to fish. Okay, switch gears. I've fished with you, and I've fished against you, and I've learned from you in both situations. One thing that is really impressive is your keen awareness of electronics and navigation, and how you utilize them. Not only how you use them in bass fishing, but also in saltwater. We've done some offshore fishing together, for all kinds of saltwater species, and you have a super savvy approach on how to use electronics. Let's talk about that.

Roland: Early in my career, and it was how I got involved with Lowrance Electronics, I made a water-clarity meter. I did it with a selenium photocell from a camera, and I put it in a tube with a light source and a little rheostat, and I was going to patent the whole thing. Anyway, Karl Lowrance saw it in a Bassmaster article in the 70's, but then I never pursued it. But in talking to me about electronics he said I ought to work for Lowrance. So Lowrance hired me in '70 and '71, while I was on the B.A.S.S. seminar tour - I was known as the Lowrance Scientific Fishermen. My job was to do instructional film work, and to travel and do seminars on how to read a depth finder - understanding the basic signals on a flasher, and so on. I helped develop the digital water thermometer that you see on all the boats now, and helped develop the curvilinear graph, the first one that Lowrance had. It was a paper graph and a flasher, at the same time.

Bernie: You've been instrumental in many developments over the years.

Roland: In the meantime, Loren Hill was involved with me on the PH meter, and that really didn't get off the ground, and then the Color-C-Lector, but that didn't go anywhere either. But anyway, I had the chance to be involved.

Basically, I've won five or six tournaments on deep structure. We had the opportunity back then to spend a lot more time practicing on a lake. At Santee Cooper you could spend a week or two with good electronics and find schools of fish on deep ledges. Now, with GPS we're even further ahead of the game, able to pinpoint spots so much better than we did 20 years ago.

Unfortunately, with the new B.A.S.S. format we don't have enough time. With three days of practice it's easier and more productive in the long run to beat the bank, either looking for spawning fish, or a shallow spinnerbait bite, or some other type of feeding pattern. Because structure is so hard to find, and time consuming, we've gotten into a problem. Take this lake for example; at Smith Lake the water's a couple hundred feet deep. We could have easily worked electronics here, like Aqua-Vu underwater cameras and the 104 Lowrance - what a super unit that is, and with the color and resolution. With drop-shotting, ideal for deep structure, and spoon jigging, somebody with enough time could have broken this tournament open, and it would have been a better tournament. Basically, the guys that are leading it aren't fishing structure, they're just scratching around in the back of pockets with some kind of, I don't know…

Bernie: Shallow-running reaction lure?

Roland: Yeah. So, that's the way it's going to be won. Unfortunately, we've taken deep structure out of the equation. We don't have enough time to explore the structural opportunities that exist on these lakes.

Bernie: Time is limited, and precious. Do you still benefit from the electronics?

Roland: No question. A perfect example is the new GPS systems - I'm really good at working with GPS. I can fly down the lake, hit my menu buttons, change my screens, increase my unit's memory, and plot trails. I can refer to waypoints, do everything on the run, really fast, 'cause I understand GPS functions - it's been a lifesaver for me. My running times are recorded, the total trail time it took to run to a spot, and times back to the launch ramp. All these things are now just part of the normal day's input. I really rely on that data.

Bernie: That's typical of your approach; you are very cerebral in your approach to competitive fishing, or fishing in general. When you take a tool like a GPS, or a graph recorder, or an Aqua-Vu camera, and then take it to the next level…that's what separates you from the average touring pro.

With your keen awareness of electronics, and how you've applied them, do you think you actually make it harder than it needs to be sometimes? Do you think you can put too much into that, and get away from some of the more basic approaches?

Roland: Yeah, in my quest for understanding patterns, I have probably gone a little overboard. I have an oxygen meter, a PH meter, all sorts of thermometers, and so on.

Bernie: Roland, what do you feel is your legacy in the sport? What are your biggest contributions to fishing?

Roland: My biggest contributions to fishing have probably been my film work. The 101 Bass Fishing Secrets isn't a bad book, either. I'm proud of that. The whole list of achievements and records I have with B.A.S.S, I'm proud of those. Whether they hold up, or not, I don't even worry about that.

I feel I'm one of the fathers of the sport. They can't take away the fact that I helped develop tournaments, as we know them today. I feel good about that.

Bernie: What about as a teacher, or instructor?

Roland: I love that role; it's so easy. My forte' and my strength in filming is being able to turn to the camera and tell the audience what I think they need to know about the basics of fishing. I don't try to get too complicated. I don't get in depth like In-Fishermen would - just keep it simple, keep it focused, and keep the enthusiasm going. You know, it's kind of a trademark when I say, "Oh, son!" I always got excited, and I still get excited today. That's genuine enthusiasm when I catch a fish. My make-up is simple instruction and entertainment with enthusiasm…and a couple of big fish.

I know reality TV is one thing - ESPN talks about reality, where you have to show the reality of catching that fish. That's not what I have to do. I'm not into reality television; I'm in for the impact. If I have to spend three days filming a show in order to get a big bass, then I'm gonna do that, because I don't think reality is what we want to watch. I think it's the total end result of catching the big fish, while demonstrating the techniques. Whatever it takes, I'll get it done.

So I'm at odds with Jerry McKinnis and Jimmy Houston, the way they do their films. I'm more in line with Bill Dance. I mean, you know, there's a difference.

Bernie: You have your own style, you own formula, and you abide by that.

Roland: Right.

Bernie: Okay, what's next for Roland Martin?

Roland: Well, the tournament trail is good. It's provided the credibility I needed to entertain people through my TV show, my forte', and I think I'll continue with that. I'm gonna continue my tournament endeavors - I enjoy the camaraderie, the new waters, and new challenges and techniques that we're exposed to on the trail. And I might do a sequel to 101 Bass Fishing Secrets. I still have a lot of ambition, even at 63. I have a whole list of goals…one is to win the Classic (smiles). But even if I don't, there are lots of other goals, and another AOY title would be good. So long as I have my health and my enthusiasm, and as long as I can focus on a goal, I'll continue.

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